Brainstorm: Tips to Beat Google
I was tagged by King Nomar earlier today to pick a subject that my readers could develop through commenting. Since Nomar talked about how Google is starting to take over the Internet, I wanted to expand on his topic and talk about ways in which the search engine playing field can be evened (a topic that was also inspired by my latest comments on Ms. Danielle’s site regarding the Domination of the Ad Exchange Market). Before I get started with our Brainstorming session, I would like to invite Samanathon, Andy Beard, Maki, John Anthony and EastCoastLife to bring up topics on their blogs that could use the help of their communities brainpower and if they have time, comment on this upcoming topic.
Situation: Google is wiping the floor with MSN and Yahoo by claiming over 45% of the search engine market (according to the Nielsen Ratings). A big reason for the overwhelming market share is the high quality of Google Adsense and Adwords programs which have generated billions of dollars for Google and bribed, er, made Millions of dollars for publishers around the world. It also helps that Google has created a top-notch, ultra-secret & constantly changing algorithm for their search engine that no one in this world knows how to figure out.
Problem: There has been a growing backlash towards Google in the past year or so due to the complex search engine algorithms and sheer audacity to rank pages on a scale from 1 to 10. The same rankings which can cost publishers literally thousands of dollars as more and more advertising networks use the Page Rank as a metric to measure web site quality. No matter how unfair, publishers must oblige to Google’s demands since they control so much of the traffic on the web.
Solutions: This is where we need the power of this community to discuss what it’s going to take to bring Google back down to earth. Since, the two closest players with enough resources and assets to compete with Google are Yahoo and MSN, I would suggest that we brainstorm about possible tips and strategy we can offer our Google Slayers. Like the saying goes – “Competition breeds Innovation!”
Remember, we want to encourage discussion and inspire each other to build off each others thoughts, so please withhold any derogatory or disparaging remarks that do nothing for this topic.
Sebastian Lewis and 12 others are discussing.
Wolf Stone 3.54 pm on 02.05.2007 Permalink
Hey There,
I do not know what steps Google’s competitors can take to catch up to Google but i was thinking…what if Yahoo and Baidu merged..would that create a giant capable of stopping google?
Gary Lee 4.16 pm on 02.05.2007 Permalink
That would a pretty good idea, but from what I heard Google made a pretty good offer to them last year and they declined. I wonder what their asking price is!
Sebastian Lewis 4.54 pm on 02.05.2007 Permalink
I don’t see it. You listed MSN as a competitor to Google. Microsoft’s Windows Live/MSN services are and never worth using, and that goes triple for their search. Yahoo is an interesting one though, if only for their oddball strategies to take on Google, but they have an integrated network of services.
I don’t have anything in paticular against most search engines, it’s just none of them are nearly as good as Google. The only way I can see them competing is if they can produce more relevant search results and offer more tools for it while at the same time cleaning up their User Interface.
Sebastian
eastcoastlife 6.26 pm on 02.05.2007 Permalink
Oh gosh! What am I supposed to do? haha…. Thanks for the invite. Will think about it. Busy with my projects these days.
Gary Lee 7.35 pm on 02.05.2007 Permalink
so what in particular do they need to fix with their user interface? I know right now that Yahoo and MSN aren’t really competing, so that’s why i’m tryin gto see what you guys are thinking about what they need to do . . . . here’s one suggestion for yahoo – stop making us wait days for our ppc campaigns to get approved . . .
KellyCho 8.55 pm on 02.05.2007 Permalink
Yahoo should build a Googleplex-type complex to get their workers motivated and creative.
No but seriously, personally, I used to use Yahoo as my search engine up until a couple of months ago. The only thing that made me go to Google is its simplistic look (though they’re trying to personalize/change that with the iGoogle). Plus, Google offers more tools, what with adsense, analytics, blogger… and they’re constantly adding more. Besides Answers, I have no clue what tools Yahoo offers people… that’s bad.
Wolf Stone 9.32 pm on 02.05.2007 Permalink
Maybe Yahoo and MSN should hire “chief culture officers” to retain the company’s unique culture and keep the employees happy.
http://news.com.com/Meet+Googles+culture+czar/2008-1023_3-6179897.html
Sebastian Lewis 10.12 pm on 02.05.2007 Permalink
My Problem with Yahoo extends into it’s search results relevance, the tools it offers not being nearly as useful as the ones Google has, and it’s default user interface being cluttered with junk I care very little about.
Google offers a very simple user interface, an option to personalize it (recently Google Personalized Homepage, now iGoogle and I rather like the name change) with Google Gadgets and themes.
Google Video search also makes use of Google’s aquisition of YouTube, meaning I can get my 2 favorite video sites in one place. I tried Yahoo’s search, and found it cluttered and inconsistent, for example, I would try to watch one video but it would start downloading, but if I tried to watch another it would stream, with no warning at all.
Then there is the wonderful Gmail service. I use it as my main email in addition to my personal .Mac email in Mail.app. It works great as Webmail or as part of Mail (in my highly organized System of Smart Mailboxes each and everyone of them designed to help me get through all of my Email in a timely fashion) and my only complaint would be the lack of IMAP, as most people’s complaints are.
I use Google SketchUp and Google Earth for my Architectural Design class, both applications very well designed, and Google Earth just happens to integrate with Google Maps. :-p
Then there is Google Images and Google Finance, I realize many still prefer Yahoo Finance, but I can’t understand how. It’s User Interface is ugly! And Google Image Search, which isn’t bad in it’s own right, but I still have yet to find an image search I like.
That at last leaves the 2 last Search Engines from Google I love the most. Google News Search and Google Patent Search. I study a handful of businesses around the tech world to not only understand the entire industry better, but also to understand the positions each of them is in and how they can and probably will affect the industry. These 2 search engines, one that pulls up information on a companies current business practices and newsworthy items, and the other pulling up information on their current intellectual property are absolutely priceless.
As I said before, MSN/Windows Live is not a relevant competitor, but if Yahoo can top each and every one of these services then I would gladly switch (well, I could never switch from Earth/SketchUp, :-p) to their services.
You want ideas? What for? So you can turn them over just so Google won’t be the better search engine? That’s rebellion for the sake of rebellion, and if Yahoo can’t beat Google in the free market then I have absolutely no advice to give them. What many people forget is that Google isn’t an actual monopoly. Yahoo and any other search provider is a click away. You can even mix and match search engines from different companies to your liking (I tend to standarize on a single platform, except for Technorati, Amazon, and eBay, but Inqusitor takes care of all of my needs) and the reason people use Google is because people generally find it’s uncluttered designed far better than the junk that greets you on Yahoo or MSN, the results (hint: The most important thing) are far more relevant with enough supporting services (Co-op, Maps, News, etc.) to keep it that way.
It does not matter how Google finds information I’m looking for as long as it finds the information I’m looking for. Bring on the Pagerank.
Sebastian
Zeno Davatz 10.26 pm on 02.05.2007 Permalink
The thing I do not like about Google and Yahoo is, that they do not recognize documents with similar content. It happens often on the Web that a post or document is spread out over more then 50 websites. Now that is great for the author but not for the searcher because it blows up your search result unnecessarily. With InfoCodex this will not happen because the linguistical database recognizes similar documents and puts them into groups. This does not blow up your search result unnecessarily. InfoCodex Procedure
lyndonmaxewell 10.50 pm on 02.05.2007 Permalink
Learnt anything from the “Digg” lesson? Bring them down to Earth, the way people brought Digg down. But what would we get out from it?
Rob Scott 10.50 pm on 02.05.2007 Permalink
I think that one great way to get one over on google would be to introduce a program which competes with Adsense and Adwords, and which actually has some form of quality control. There are too many sites using Adwords which are of terrible quality, or, worse, that are actually advertising entirely falsely.
For example, see the problems I have had with a certain Adwords advertiser… and his ‘attorney’…
http://www.24hourtrading.co.uk/blog/2007/05/01/the-get-google-ads-free-site-is-a-complete-scam/
Shane 1.02 am on 03.05.2007 Permalink
Yahoo’s problem is that they’re a portal rather than a search engine. There’s too much Yahoo stuff on their homepage which translates into Yahoo properties traffic rather than search traffic.
MSN is the same. Live is getting away from that, but Microsoft has a long way to go.
The only way to beat Google is to get people to use Yahoo and Live search more. Promote those and get those 2 companies to promote their search services rather than their portal offerings and the weight will start to shift.
Well, that’s one idea anyway
Zeno Davatz 5.24 am on 03.05.2007 Permalink
Well, I do not want to harm Google or Yahoo I just want a better search technology for the User of the Internet. How it works. I believe this can only be done with a linguistical database.
Daniel 8.05 am on 03.05.2007 Permalink
I’m sorry. I think Yahoo and MSN should focus on content. MSN can afford to take a hit financially, but Yahoo cannot. It needs to integrate its properties and open up more API.
But then again, I’ve always been a fan of the fantasy sports myself.
Gary Lee 9.07 am on 03.05.2007 Permalink
Honestly, the only reason I ever log into Yahoo is to check my fantasy sports. Now that fantasy basketball is over, I haven’t logged into yahoo for over 2 weeks as opposed to every hour on the hour.
Gary Lee 9.09 am on 03.05.2007 Permalink
I’m not asking us to harm Google or Yahoo in any way . . Google could maintain it’s technology right now, but what I would like to see is someone step up to the plate and do better than Google . . . just like how the japanese made the american car makers step up their game in the 80′s and 90s!
Gary Lee 9.10 am on 03.05.2007 Permalink
but if they’re a portal, doesn’t that give them more opportunity to place contextual ads that people will more likely click on?
Zeno Davatz 9.41 am on 03.05.2007 Permalink
Yep, I like your comparison with the Japanese car companies. The Japanese always find a real new way to drive innovation!
http://pipes.yahoo.com is not bad and seems to work better for me then the Custom Google Search. I also like Flickr.
Nomar 11.50 am on 03.05.2007 Permalink
Yeah, if those 2 big guys will merge they maybe can compete better with google. What if another one joins them and they merge all together. Than google will get a hard time on staying at # 1 for sure.
Sebastian Lewis 2.51 pm on 03.05.2007 Permalink
The way you’re talking about their Ad strategies you make it sound like people actually go out of their way to click them.
Yahoo can place the most relevant ads in the world, but if they can’t find what I’m looking for with their search services I refuse to use them.
Sebastian
Shane 3.45 pm on 03.05.2007 Permalink
Hey Gary,
Advertising on their properties helps them more than anyone. But to get grass roots support and reel in as many advertisers and publishers as possible, they have to give their traffic to you and me via search. Free traffic. Just like Google does.
In the end Google has created a larger market for advertisers and publishers because it’s everywhere, and the traffic is not heavily retained by them with portal properties the way it is with Yahoo.
Sebastian Lewis 3.49 pm on 03.05.2007 Permalink
You’re correct, but adding more relevant advertising isn’t going to help make it anymore free than free can possibly be.
Google does this, Yahoo does it, and millions of web pages do it, but the fact is you can’t beat the price of free. At that point it comes down to who I want to use, in that case Yahoo has nothing to offer me that is useful that “innovative advertising” could solve. If they want me or other Google users to jump ship, they need to offer a better service, and that doesn’t mean going Ad crazy.
Sebastian
msdanielle 12.46 am on 04.05.2007 Permalink
i agree that Yahoo and MSN’s platforms aren’t as user friendly as Google’s, but as an advertiser, their traffic is still considered high quality and is able to convert. they need to improve their search results algorithms to compete. but they’re so behind already… it’s like when the US auto manufacturers realized they had to step up their game and offer hybrid vehicles. they’re so behind japan that they didn’t re-create the technology, they just licensed it off of Toyota. but there’s no way in hell google’s going to license out their search algorithms… unfortunately, at this point anything short is almost wasted effort
Armen : : Blog Advice 1.20 am on 04.05.2007 Permalink
I don’t think they can compete with Google, they need to come up with something different, something that will impact the online world, possibly by adding a new dimension to online advertising.
Don’t ask me what it could be, otherwise I’d sell the idea, but they definately need something innovative. Copying and challenging Google at their own game will not work.
Zeno Davatz 2.16 am on 04.05.2007 Permalink
Thanks for this post. I agree.
I believe that Google will eventually have to OpenSource its search algorithms to survive. Software that is not OpenSource will not be able to compete in the long run. Yahoo is not so far behind Google. They just have to focus more on content recognition.
webee | will google be the new microsoft? 3.35 am on 04.05.2007 Permalink
[...] garry lee wants to “beat google”. the other day he posted this article of his where he explains why the interneters should brainstorm an innovative strategy to beat [...]
Daniel B. Honigman 8.02 am on 04.05.2007 Permalink
How about this-
Tip #1 to beating Google: Merge Yahoo and Microsoft.
msdanielle 10.20 am on 04.05.2007 Permalink
MicroHoo?
Sebastian Lewis 7.08 pm on 05.05.2007 Permalink
I don’t want Microsoft touching my Flickr or del.icio.us accounts. More to the point, I don’t want them near any service I actually use.
Sebastian
Sebastian Lewis 7.20 pm on 05.05.2007 Permalink
Wrong!
Open Source is a terrible business model to place everything in, especially if it’s in that ridiculous GNU license (I rather prefer BSD) that sucks the business and competition out of software, turning it more into a services industry for software vendors.
Take Mac OS X for example. A huge chunk of it is Open Source, but Apple combines it with their own proprietary technology (Quicktime’s Media Layer, for example, and the bundled applications like iCal, Mail, or iChat AV) and stick it on their hardware. Apple has the best of both worlds, a competitive advantage and the open source advantage (mainly stable and existing code which can be modified for their own use allowing for faster development cycles) allowing for a better product.
Google can’t, won’t, and shouldn’t give away their competitive advantage.
Sebastian
Sebastian Lewis 7.24 pm on 05.05.2007 Permalink
The difference is that a sum of the human population makes a terrible group of people to review what people should and shouldn’t read about. Everyone has their own agenda and their own interests and only a subset of the population will bother with Digg.
It doesn’t help that every popular article is a war zone in the comments.
Google, Yahoo, and any other Search Engine uses automation looking for relevant websites based on the query, and provides tools to refine your search, something Digg could never match.
Sebastian
Sebastian Lewis 7.32 pm on 05.05.2007 Permalink
Here’s a hint: People don’t use Google so they can stare at ads all day. They use it to find useful information, if the Ads help, then great, but that’s just the business model keeping Google profitable. If Google’s search share goes down, then so does their Ad revenue, unless the overall market continues to grow.
Sebastian
msdanielle 2.31 pm on 06.05.2007 Permalink
i agree with sebastian that open source isn’t necessarily the solution. my point is that anything short of google licensing their algorithms will result in wasted effort by microsoft and yahoo. but google won’t anyway…so continues the debate…
Daniel B. Honigman 4.24 pm on 06.05.2007 Permalink
Unfortunately, my dealings with Yahoo lead me to believe that Yahoo is overly compartmentalized and has become like any other faceless corporation, e.g. Microsoft. Instead of focusing on being innovative, they look to buy smaller, more nimble companies with attractive, one-of-a-kind Web properties.
In short, it’s not a cool Web start-up anymore. And that’s too bad.